Finally joined; looking for some newbie help.
I bookmarked this tribe a long time ago and I've been reading and checking out a lot of impressive images in the "photo album".
I took a couple first timer test shots and I've posted them, along with some questions on ths site: www.ctekpro.com/test
thanks for any suggestions / advise
Will
I bookmarked this tribe a long time ago and I've been reading and checking out a lot of impressive images in the "photo album".
I took a couple first timer test shots and I've posted them, along with some questions on ths site: www.ctekpro.com/test
thanks for any suggestions / advise
Will
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Re: Jumping into Black
Sun, December 11, 2005 - 9:29 AMhm. well, you asked...
Compositionally, I think your images are too sprawling. You have too much sky that's not doing anything. The horizon line is low and thus optically boring. There are certainly exceptions to this aesthetic (A. Adams, "Moonrise," for instance), but I'm not seeing it just yet.
I think that if you isolated something more interesting, then we could discuss the logistics of film vs. dig., timing, etc. (e.g. By isolating your color composition you might gain some perspective on how the camera reacts to different levels, light, saturation, etc.)
Keep at it!
-Kate -
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"hm. well, you asked..."
Sun, December 11, 2005 - 11:45 AMThanks Kate
"Compositionally, I think your images are too sprawling. "
- Yes, my goal for composition was: to have a variety of color and texture / contrast, movement (there are some headlights from passing cars).
(The alignment of the moon with the gable below that reads "center", was totally accidental; 3rd image down.)
I have no attachment to the subjects in these photos - just a test to see how my camera would respond to a night shot.
Well, tonight's the night - I'm going down-town for a couple hours and shoot em up (only supposed to get down to freezing).
"I think that if you isolated something more interesting, then we could discuss the logistics of film vs. dig., timing, etc. (e.g. By isolating your color composition you might gain some perspective on how the camera reacts to different levels, light, saturation, etc.) ; Keep at it! -Kate"
Thanks for the encouragement. I really like taking pics and tonight should be a fun new adventure. -
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Re: "hm. well, you asked..."
Sun, December 11, 2005 - 12:07 PMah, I see. A digital camera (esp. on auto-focus) is not going to pick up on the variety of everything you listed-- you have to do that. Variety is great, and you have the right idea, but try one pic that details movement from headlights, one pic that deals mainly with neon signage... you get the point.
It'd be helpful to note exact readings too. I use film, and if I don't know if I pushed my X-speed film to Z, then I'm screwed next time I want to improve or get a similar shot.
Good luck tonight and stay warm!
-Kate
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Re: Jumping into Black
Tue, December 13, 2005 - 12:54 AMHey there! Not bad for your first tests. I may suggest taking the camera off of auto or at least bracketing because the camera's default in a scene like that will be to overexpose (like the 2nd image). Try several different exposure times see how it changes the images. Also, you may want to pick up some Neutral Density filters and a cokin A series digital holder (or a CLA-4 tube and some screw-in ones). That camera can only do F8, and sometimes longer shutter speeds can be fun!
Can't wait for round 2....... -
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Roung Two
Tue, December 13, 2005 - 10:30 PMThank you Rodney,
I ran round two before I got your suggestions.
I will research your input - round three may be new year's eve.
Anyone?
Please Pick a Pic and offer some advise:
www.ctekpro.com/test/nighttest2.htm
thanks
Will -
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Unsu...
Re: Roung Two
Wed, December 14, 2005 - 12:23 PMWill
I hate to be critical, but you did ask, my view is that the series lack (individually) a focal point of the shot, I am left wondering about the subject and or the reason for the photo. Obviously you are going to trouble to get setup and use a tripod etc, but it doesn't sem obvious to me what the 'point' of each shot was. Who/what was the subject. I guess this harks back to Kate's point about sprawling composition.
My advice, for whatever its worth, is in the next round aim to have the subject be obvious, is it the horse+cart or the couple standing waiting, that kind of thing, isolate the subject using cropping and or other techniques, like depth of field, shutter speed, field of view etc etc.
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the point of the shot
Fri, December 16, 2005 - 5:19 PMSounds like a good mantra: What is the 'point' of this shot . . .what is the subject?
And then, what can I do to capture it?
Thanks Daren -
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Unsu...
Re: the point of the shot
Fri, December 16, 2005 - 6:25 PMcomposition is a lot more difficult that camera working. The 'eye' thing is very much personal as well. What I think might make no sense and be hogwash to someone else. Sometimes the 'point' might be 'a chaotic scene' which might appear to a viewer later as no point/subject.
Find the energy, what is it that drew your eye and later the camera, use the viewfinder to draw the viewer into that energy, find sinuous lines or graphic shapes or placement to all get the eye moving in the shot. Then a good photo doesn't stop there, the picture takes on an energy of its own, the eye roves the image and moves as your compositional elements - typically organized by size in the brain get attention. The eyes should not be thrown out of frame by the first secondary subject but should flow around the image or settle peacefully. What I'm gobbing off about is using the composition to create a dynamic image where the eye and the mind move around the shot.
I just copied this image
www.sfdigitalphotography.com/ex1.jpg
not because it is anything special, but watch someone as they look at it. Let them watch the screen and you watch them. See how the eye hunts the image for a subject, then the brain processes more and more and decides that the subject is moe about color than form. Then 2 million years of evolution kicks in and starts finding faces, look at 'who' you end up looking at.. Watch this kind of movement when people look at your prints. -
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Re: the point of the shot
Fri, December 16, 2005 - 8:12 PMI live in downtown Ashland, Oregon. We have our annual Festival of Light in which the town is illuminated by a million Christmas lights. It's very beautiful, but also overwhelming. It's amazing how a composition can seem so cool when you look through the lens, and then be so boring when you look at in on the lightbox (or the monitor). That's been my biggest growth as a photographer: seeing the final image while looking through the lens.
My advice is this: Once you find something that catches your eye, eliminate everything that doesn't belong. Use a long lens -- or get in close with a wide angle -- and isolate your subject. I just posted a pic in the album of a the Christmas lights being reflected in a line of parked cars. It was a beautiful scene, with the buildings on the left and the cars on the right, but when I first composed it, trying to capture the whole scene, there was just too much going on. I asked myself the question I always ask: "What is it about this scene that drew me to it?" The answer was the line of cars, so I set out to just capture those.
The result is a photograph similar to the one that Daren discusses in the previous message. It doesn't immediately jump out, but waits to be discovered as to what is exactly going on. And it is of one subject and one subject only.
So try that: don't photograph things per say, but the "essence" of things. And eliminate everything else. This is especially critical with night photography.
-Jay-
P.S. Check out my album. -
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Re: the point of the shot
Fri, December 16, 2005 - 8:14 PMJay again. Just looked at your second set of images. A wonderful improvement. Looks like you took all of this advice to heart and made it ino successful images! -
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last set of 10
Fri, December 16, 2005 - 10:26 PMThank you very much Jay. I posted those bottom 10 pics a little later.
Daren's advise influenced my cropping.
I shot them the same night after taking a break for some dinner at the Denver Diner.
It gave me a break to warm up and "re-focus" - before going back out and shooting for another half hour or so.
I've been doing some research on lens adapters - per Rodney's suggestion.
I will come back and digest Daren's and your comments - very interesting.
Thanks to all,
Will
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Round Three
Wed, January 25, 2006 - 3:48 PMI'm back - with final round three.
Took me a while to find the time to put together my shots from new year's eve.
- thanks to everyone for suggestions (still open to more) -
www.ctekpro.com/test/nighttest3.htm -
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Re: Round Three
Wed, January 25, 2006 - 7:52 PMAll right, Will, you asked for critique and I feel like writing...
Asweome shots. One is superb and I ccould see it being on a gallery wall.
The mall ones are close. It's a bit tough to make out the big cat. And there's some wasted space on the bottom of the frame. Either by moving backward or forward a few steps it may have given more of the essense of "cat". The other one is great color, but it looks like you had to crop out some parking lot ugliness on the bottom, which makes the scene a little jarring (that happens to me sometimes). If you have any more from that session, I'd like to see them.
Trumpet guy is great. But another thing that happens to me happened to you. The exposure and sharpness are spot on in the first one, but the composition (in my eyes) is a bit off. He's a bit too centered and there's nothing of value added on the right side of the frame (again, for my tastes). The second one, however, has great compositon and subject matter (like the two people in the background, eeven though you didn't even see them -- happy surprises rule). But the trumpeter is too soft. That would be okay if the radio wasn't tack sharp. It pulls the eye where you don't want it.
The fireworks shot is good but could have been better. That half a thing coming in from the left side and half a tree on the bottom take away from the impact, but I'm sure those weren't the easiest of shooting conditions on NYE.
Tha marquee shot is too bright. Use curves and experiment with pulling different points on the line dwon to get a moodier exposure.
And the last one, the "afterthought" as you described it. That's the keeper. It's awesome. (I'm bewildered by how many of my "aftethought" shots are the ones people most respond to.) They guy sitting on the bench makes the shot. Again, if you darkened it a bit it would be a little more moody. And always take full credit for your "accidents" -- if you weren't out there with your camera, they would have never happened. Reminds me of my favorite photography quote...from Wayne Gretzky:
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take."
-Jay- -
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Re: Round Three
Thu, January 26, 2006 - 1:36 PMJay,
- thanks - as you've seen I like to digest the feedback I receive - so it will be a while before I get back -
I feel a little unworthy, but I won't turn down such good advice.
Looking at your albums:
" Right below the Fairy Pools, about 50 feet from parking area upstream from the reservoir. Don't you just love this town?"
A classic shot. I've been to Ashland - about 15-20 yrs ago (attending aikido training seminars). And yeah, it is a great town (believe I walked along that same creek).
And from www.newmanimages.com/ - its hard to pick a favorite - but I like "Fishing In The Applegate" - very subtle use of light and dark.
re: Wayne Gretzky - I don't follow hockey, but I've heard his name so often - I thought maybe he even played for the Colorado Avalanche at some point.
Oddly enough, I was driving one of those mall shuttles the day of the parade for the 96' Stanley Cup Champs - it was a mad house.
thanks again,
Will
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This is just a little follow-up
Thu, February 9, 2006 - 7:12 PMPer request, I've added few more shots from new year's eve:
www.ctekpro.com/test/night...3.htm#post1
I also tried to see if I could do anymore with the trumpeter (added a 3rd shot from that night) and reworked mall shuttle shot:
www.ctekpro.com/test/night...htm#rework1
Jay, is this closer to what you were thinking?
www.ctekpro.com/test/img/shuttle123d.jpg
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After some equipment research, I bought a 3rd party lens tube/adapter - to break away from the proprietary situation.
Depending on my zoom it seems to work pretty well as a lens hood.
I also purchased a screw-on 2xtele which seems to do a fair job.
This will help me get more into the frame in some situations.
My camera (Oly C5060wz - digital) is not a slr, but its all my budget can handle for now. For the buck, I'm happy with it, just need to become a better photographer.
Still open to feedback.
Thanks All
Will
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